S1 E1: HOW IRELAND GOT AHEAD OF THE CURVE IN FDI USING DATA: Transcript
(Geraldine) Welcome to Where the Needle Lands.
(Mahima) A podcast series on analytics and the business of analytics covering the broad spectrum from BI to AI.
(Geraldine)Where the Needle Lands questions, how analytics transforms companies, economies, nations, and societies.
(Mahima) A co-hosted show by Geraldine Magnier and myself Mahima Badsra, where we speak with powerful, wordy, and influential leaders.
(Geraldine) On today’s show, we speak with Padraic White, an expert in the use of embracing innovation and technological change for enhancing future development and expansion. Padraic White is an advisor to Westpark Shannon, chairman to Collins McNicholas recruitment and HR services. Padraic is also, the former MD of IDA Ireland.
So, he is no stranger to embracing change to advance growth economically and sectorally. He has seen the use of analytics and AI in state, semi-state and private companies. Padraic has had an eagle eye on how Ireland has used analytics in many facets over the last 40 years of his career.
Listen to the podcast about growing up in Leitrim and the strategy for AI from minutes 1 to 6.
Padraic, very welcome to the show today. Thank you for being here. You are a Leitrim man?
(Padraic) Yes, I am a native of north Leitrim. And uh, in an area very often people write off or think poor Leitrim, but it has had a profoundly formative influence on me because of the evidence, of the need for employment and viable economic future in, in, in the rural areas of Ireland.
So, in fact, uh, I was so, passionate about that when I came to Dublin that I think I talked myself into a job in the IDA, which was a hundred per cent fit with that passion, which was to develop the very first set of regional industrial plans ever in Ireland, where the IDA set out to bring jobs to the people that was the name of the, of our, of our document.
(Geraldine) What year was that?
(Padraic) And that was in 1973, developed a pioneering set of regional plans, 1973 to 1977. And the reason that Allergan and its thousand workers are in Westport today is precisely because of that plan because that plan led to the buying of an industrial site, the building of an advanced factory. And before that factory was ever finished, even finished, Allergan said, uh, we want to establish there. And, and they have grown there over the last, uh, decades until they have become the more successful research-based companies in Ireland.
(Geraldine) That’s over 40 years ago?
(Padraic) Yeah.
(Geraldine) So, Padraic is here tonight to talk to us about AI. So, can you talk to us about your knowledge of AI as a strategy and how you see it today?
(Padraic) Well, AI, first, embraces many kinds of different technologies from robotics, machine learning, predictive analysis. So, there are many subsets in it right up to the desire to almost replicate the human brain, which some researchers have aimed at. But essentially, it’s, it is the new battleground of technology for the future.
I see it like this almost where the battleground of the cold war and technology is going to be fought between the great powers as to who will dominate in this technology. I mean, China has laid down a clear aspiration to be the war leader by 2030. The European Union has developed the, uh, an outline of a digital strategy to position the European Union’s due to be completed this year. Probably with the new commission; it will have to be re-looked at. It has not really taken off yet.
America. America does not really have an industrial strategy because they do not really believe in it. But what they do have are companies which are, which are highly ambitious and have the scale, uh, to whether it is to develop space X saddle, you know, uh, take you to, to Mars, um, or Elon Musk, uh, with all his ambitions. So, the big companies in America, like Microsoft, you know, are pouring fortunes into artificial intelligence. Microsoft, for example, uh, this year have, uh, just given the 1 billion to a company called AI open, to develop artificial general intelligence and to be capable. I mean, the specific objective is that it should be capable of managing its entire cloud system globally.
So, so, there, the Americans have the companies, and they have the money and I have, if they spot something and they think to become global leaders, they have the potential to raise the capital.
Ireland has brought it out this year. I mean, it is fascinating to me, that Ireland, brought out future jobs, which actuary are very far-seeing document to position Ireland as a leader in AI and the new technologies.
Because it is not sexy, it is kind of gone under the radar. It is critical to Ireland retaining its position as a leader in technologies, both for indigenous industry and for foreign direct investments. And for example, within it, I mean, there are three substrate strategies, and I do not want to get too technical, but for example, this is a strategy is called four zero strategies to develop the internet of things, the digital connection of things.
There is a digitalisation strategy on its own, right. And there’s to be an AI intelligence strategy. So, there are layers in there and it is designed to also pervade the funding, that the Science Foundation Ireland provides for our artificial intelligence. And it will also, come in and pervade and be a major feature, and I am predicting this and the new IDA five-year plan, which is due to be unveiled, uh, early next year.
Listen to the podcast about Ireland as Silicon Valley of Europe and the international companies from minutes 6 to 15.
(Mahima) So, let us go back a little bit. Ireland right now it is Dublin, one of the reasons why I moved here was because it is considered the Silicon Valley of Europe. So, let us talk about your time at IDA and how did it, how did Dublin or Ireland come about to be a technological hub in Europe?
(Padraic) Well, it is a fascinating question, you know, which intrigues me, but notice it is, and it is a question, how to Dublin stroke Ireland really. Because, eh, I personally was fortunate to join the new IDA Ireland in 1970, when it became a separate state agency, I was very fortunate to join it in 1970 at its very foundation and bear in mind that, uh, Ken Whitakers famous economic document economic development was in 1958, just a decade earlier and that laid the foundation, that was based on sweeping away the 40 years of protectionism. Wiping away the restrictions that you could not have, that a foreigner could not own more than half of the companies and reorienting the entire economic system to export-oriented, productive investment. So, the IDA effectively was created deliberately 10 years later to be a master state agency with all the freedom to carry through that philosophy into and at that time indigenous industry, but particularly foreign investment.
(Mahima) That is a big responsibility looking back at it.
(Padraic) It was huge and it started with a, with a, with a, with a plain sheet, basically.
(Mahima) Planing the future of the whole country.
(Padraic) Yeah. There is a huge intellectual process that underpinned it. I mean, there was not, there was an element of the pharmaceutical industry in Ireland. But the IDA analysis was that again, scanning the world, that there was an emerging electronics industry.
(Mahima) Where did to get the data for, um, scanning about emerging trends? What is going to happen? What would the future look like?
(Padraic) There is there are really two sources within IDA. One is that it has got its international network of offices, which are like, they have the finger on the pulse whether it is in Germany or in the United States or in California. Yeah. But the key is that it is out ahead of everybody else.
(Mahima) Of course. Yeah.
(Padraic) Because it is engaging with the emerging companies that would be potential investors in Ireland and it filters out the ones that have the potential to export.
So, that is one source. So, it picks up on the ground faster than any textbook could, while it actually happening. And the other is really canning intellectually the changes in the workforce, the changes in technology, the changes in the e-commerce different country, putting all that together and then specifically moving from targeting, say the emerging electronics, uh, industry. For example, IBM in the early seventies was being overtaken by the Deck. Deck the digital equipment company, the whole emergence of mobile, personal computers, they were springing up everywhere. Uh, so, um, the IDA then identifies the sectors. That is, identifies the companies within the sectors. And then it sends its hit squad, right, to after a bit of market intelligence to get to them.
And in those early days, we had remembered in one year we made two and a half thousand presentations to target companies across Europe and America.
(Mahima) And did IDA have independence from the government in terms of decision-making?
(Padraic) Yes, it does. Because its board and its authority in law have a decision to make investment decisions up to X million, I mean it changes over time. The ones that are over a certain level of multi-million had to go to the government. But it has huge decision-making. So, it has the intellectual ability to decide on the companies, it has the people on the ground to go to target the companies, it has got all the armoury in its legislation of finance, training, schemes, sporting R&D, and development, et cetera. It has all the support of the system, what I call the system in the public and the governments in a unique way.
It is I think it is fair to say generally admired and while the whole basis of promoting foreign investment was eh, controversial in the early stages because it conflicted with our strong sense of nationalism. I think that people have now reconciled to that and they have seen that the foreign companies do not rush away when the grants are over.
(Geraldine) The idea of, um, indigenous is often put up against, we will say the multinationals and for a good, all due respect you, I have referred to you behind your back as Mr Intel. So, let us go back to that. Let us talk about the reality of what goes on behind the scenes because one of the things we talked with you about was Intel coming to Ireland.
(Padraic) Yeah. I mean, in a way it is a common sort of, uh, opt-out or escape clause for people to say, oh, well, they are only here because of tax. Um, and partly it comes from across the world where is a high degree of jealousy of Ireland success, but, but in the real world, um, what do people look for? First, they must be satisfied that they can function, have an efficient plant and again, get all the skills and all the support and all the technology and the proper building and services and gas and electricity and phones. And they have to be satisfied that they can make a profit, I mean, a profit tax is only relevant. You can make a profit in the first instance. So, they have to be satisfied with maybe three or four of those things and, and then the fifth one down probably is tax. And then it is comparative because they are, they are narrowing down to maybe two, three, four, and they say, yes, all these countries can support our enterprise, here is the pre-tax profit in all these countries, and here are the after-tax profits, and that is definitely where it comes in.
But I mean, again, talking about tax what has happened? All the other countries have all reduced their tax rates. Right? Yeah. And you do not hear that anybody telling you that the Hungry has a 10% corporate tax rate specifically to attract foreign directors and it is in the middle of the European market, we are an island at the edge of Europe.
Right. Yeah. And so, we are not a natural obvious centre for location, but to come here, if I may I take the Intel example. I mean, Intel in 1989, reselling, there were the most advanced company in the world, making microprocessors, which is at the heart, as you know of the electronic technology, they had a billion-dollar sales into Europe and every agency in the world was saying, you know, they are sending a billion dollars into Europe so they should have a plant in Europe.
Right. So, everybody was after them. I mean, IDA had, IDA’a way of operating is to patiently establish links year in, year out, uh, as a form of courting with the company, developing rapport. And I remember it being on a long, long dinner, somewhere in Silicon Valley and I think it was Andy Grove was coming to it, you know, so, they got to know Ireland.
It was a huge challenge and a huge prize. A huge challenge because Ireland did not have a large scale manufacturer of wafers or micro-processes, silicon wafers and, right. So, there was a huge gap because it is, highly scientific. In the other countries, it is number them, including the UK who said, we have a semiconductor plant here, you know, so, we have proven it. So, in referring to Intel, they actually took that risk on Ireland and we won. This indicates what is at stake and why foreign investments such an all or nothing. I mean, it is all or nothing. So, what did Ireland get, it has some like 7,000 direct employees and 12 billion investment.
(Mahima) Yeah. Yeah. It was a gateway for a lot of other tech companies to come in.
(Geraldine) But it became the reference point to the precursor.
(Padraic) Yeah. That only could happen again, not because of tax, but because Ireland had built up the sub supply services, you know, the gas installations, the construction industry. The fitters, the technical people, the transport companies, all these substructures and sub supply companies that have been built up to serve the electronic industry in a way became the foundation, as well as obviously the key people in the universities. People like Professor John Stanton of UCD, you know, who, who are really heroes, patriots for what they did.
I mean, they met these companies day in, day out, night in night out to promote Ireland. Jerry Rickson down-in Cork. I mean, we had one, we had one specialist Silicon sort of research centre that was Jerry Rickson. He was used and abused over the years. Right. So, that is the way. And the great thing is that Ireland actually worked together. People cooperated because it’s the national interest.
Listen to the podcast about the return on investment in Ireland and the Irish lessons in management from minutes 15 to 19.
(Mahima) Quick question, I think we had talked about one of the examples about ROI and Ireland was 21% more than any of the other countries. Can you tell us about how IDA and your team discovered that statistic and how helpful it was?
(Padraic) We would scan the international economic output to see if we could see something beneficial to Ireland. So, we were looking at this and the economist there had begun working at the return on investments in different countries. And they discovered that in the case of Ireland, I mean, it is, it is my memory, it was 21% in Ireland, and the rest of the average in the EU was, um, I think 12%. So, we ran ads and I still see them, where we did a sort of beautiful ad with the pencil circling 21%, you know, on European average weight on here.
And it was a great line for, with the former Taoiseach Albert Reynolds who was foreign minister industry and who was fantastic talking directly to business people. And, um, Albert would say, first of all, he would say about the tax, you know, we want you to make money. That is why we have low tax because today’s profits are tomorrow’s capital. And on that capital, you will make a 21% return on the capital.
It is twice the European average, they are not our figures, they are yours. They come from the Department of Industry of Commerce in the United States of America. And we just track those each year and it was true. It was actually accurate.
(Geraldine) How clever, the proposition and using your target market’s own research so, nobody could a fight over that.
Whittaker when he did develop that FDI strategy, would you say that there was a lot of data available at that time because really, we’re still working of the basic principles of looking out back then, 40 — 50 years later, and have you seen how anything in the last few years with technology has helped escalate what he did back then or IDA back in the seventies?
(Padraic) Well, I believe that the foreign investment sector has raised the entire level of management, uh, within Ireland in a way that was radically different from our unfortunate past, because you must bear in mind that the Irish industrial sector grew up behind protectionism of the 1930s. Breaded a very poor attitude of managerial competence or management philosophy. So, we had a very poor inheritance industrially. And I profoundly believe that the foreign sector by bringing in and engaging young Irish managers and showing them the best, they had given them access to the best, most enlightened, most advanced management philosophies, people philosophies in the world, right.
So, today if you look at, uh, the entire foreign sector, 99% of the managers are Irish, right? So, we have a pool of managers who have been learned, understand the best in the world. So, I have never seen or accepted that this is a binary choice: foreign industry or Irish industry. And to say, I absolutely have seen that the foreign sector had, have infused Ireland with a level of management and expertise that we did not have.
Listen to the podcast about the transformation of the manufacturing industry in Ireland from minutes 19 to 25.
(Geraldine) This one thing I am really intrigued with, um, Padraic is that your career it has been for decades, right? You are a man that is, um, heralding in ways the AI revolution. And yet you can speak about this going back a long time ago while it is the word that is trending at the moment, AI this, AI that. Bring us back to your journey with it and where you are today?
(Padraic) I can give an example of what we now call international services right. Which is the non-manufacturing part of the workforce. Right? Okay. The general, the general model was off where the whole industrial policy had been literally based on industry and industry equated to, and the, and the whole incentive system was manufacturing on the grants and financial incentives were for plant machinery equipment, right.
Uh, and then so, everything and most people on the banks and the policymaker’s industry meant manufacturing. Yeah, right? Yeah. So, what we saw when we do, we kept doing our analytics was that that was a decreasing share of the workforce in the international companies. What was increasing was marketing, you know, design, uh, customer support, all these other things and the actual manufacturing was, was reducing.
(Geraldine) So the ancillary services around the main manufacturing would be becoming as important.
(Mahima) Can you elaborate a bit more or give us an example of how you convinced the Irish government to move the grants away from plants and equipment to headcount? What is this, the research process behind that?
(Padraic) Traditionally, the entire industrial policy and incentives were modelled on the traditional concept of what is an industry. It is a manufacturing industry, it has a big building, it has plant and its equipment, and it makes things, So, we had capital grants for plant and equipment and buildings. Yeah. Uh, what the IDA realised from its research and scanning of the changes in the composition of the workforce internationally was that the actual manufacturing component of a workforce was declining and what you might call the non-manufacturing element was increasing.
So, So, the, the, uh, and this bit started in the mid-seventies but it became real when we persuaded the department and the government to pass a piece of legislation in 1981, which is basically called industrial development employment grants act. Right.
And the reason it was called that was that if you were a computer, a computer, a software company, which was, again, a new concept, what is a software company? And you just wanted to be recruited a lot of people in a modern office or purpose fit building, and you did not have heavy plant and equipment, we did not have the incentives to encourage the recruitment of these highly paid, highly skilled people.
So, out of all of that, two things happened. One we persuaded the government that we needed, what was called employment grants. And the second is we, we had to figure out a way of how do you promote this amorphous, called international services and non-manufacturing. So, we did a lot of stratified analysis that said, okay, what, what are the elements, parts of a company or these parts of services that are mobile, will establish in Ireland, have high-quality employment and can export and create export revenue.
So, we ended up initially identifying, you know, a very specific number of things like software, which was new.
(Mahima) Because this is the 1970s??
(Padraic) Yes, the 1970s, early eighties. Computer science, publishing, distribution, customer support, a whole series of things. And again, in the classic sort of idea manner, then having identified the segments that we believed were mobile we targeted the companies. Yeah. I mean, I, I mean, if, if I remember distinctly a very, very forced promotion internationally at this new sector and we, we were not sure at all if it will work. It was in Ricky’s Marriotts in California, and, uh, we had some eminent people like, uh, Professor Ed Walsh of Limerick University with us, and we were promoting the concepts that Ireland had, you know, very highly skilled people, that we could support these service companies, uh, that we are good at telecommunications, um, uh, and that you could create successful businesses.
So, and so, that was one of the most defining changes in the whole of the history of industrial development. And that came, that came from the fact that the IDA had its finger on the pulse and saw what was happening.
Secondly, was analysing and scanning the trends internationally. So, today the majority of the IDA projects each year, and most of the employment is actually what’s quote called international services. But the genesis of international services is exactly what I said to you.
(Geraldine) Yeah, it’s brilliant.
(Mahima) Absolutely. So, it is so interesting that we, you know, Dublin right now is the technological hub, but even going back 50 years, it started off at analysing the data and figuring out the trends, and what would the future look like? And then building on that and then working on that and creating policies based on that.
(Padraic) Yes, and I get great pride at the IDA had that we were a small country. Like where you look at the map, Ireland is not a natural centre for these industries at all, but I get great pride in the fact that, that we collectively used our brains to figure out something.
Listen to the podcast about AI and the reforms of companies like Uber from minutes 25 to 30.
(Geraldine) There is one thing I am really intrigued with, um, Padraic is that you are a man that is heralding in ways the AI revolution. What would you say about AI now, if you were in IDA, how would you use it more or differently?
(Padraic) What I would be fairly certain of is that the IDA is, is already tracking the emerging companies in AI, across the world and all the different elements, whether it is through robotics, machine learning, predictive analysis, uh, that it is already doing that. And, uh, and it is supporting some of these companies already.
But I, I, I would, I would be fairly sure that when its new five-year strategy comes out at the start of the year, that AI will figure prominently in it. And, and, and that they will do what they’ve always done, which is they’ve decided on the targets on the, sorry, on the sector, the sub-sectors, the niches, the companies in those niches, where they are, and then go after them. And if they are true, which I have no doubt they will be, they will succeed in getting the emerging leaders of those sectors and sub-sectors into Ireland, at the early stage.
So, if you look at the whole pattern of the, uh, the electronic industry, the Apples, the Intels, the whole pharmaceutical industry, and the whole, uh, financial services industry, and the whole, uh, international services area, uh, shared services. If you look at all those sectors, the wave after wave of them, sorry, the digital companies of Facebook, Twitter, Google, right. They did not happen by accident. There is a series of successive waves, and I have no doubt that the next wave will be at the various sub-sectors in AI intelligence.
(Mahima) Just, I want to know your views on how AI and whole the start-up sector in Ireland are different than in California or in America.
(Padraic) Yeah, now, I am, I am speaking to that to some extent from somebody who is familiar with venture capital. I am involved with the Bank of Ireland venture capital funds and I chaired for five years a complete hybrid, risk pure, early-stage start-up equity funds. You know, we invest pure risk money between a hundred thousand and a half a million in complete start-ups.
Now, they tend to be in technology sectors and so forth. But nevertheless, the ability to accumulate capital is much slower, we are obviously more conservative as compared with the American system where they want to have a winner from day one. So, you can have the same idea in the United States and if you get venture capital behind it in Silicon Valley, I mean, they want to be global, and they will pump billions into it and so forth. On a scale, obviously, that we can’t, you know, succeed in.
I mean, to some extent, I had a bit of a personal experience with a similar thing myself, where I chaired a company called Winnie Technology, which was one of the first and before Uber and before Halo, before MyTaxi, uh, we had, uh, found that you could use your mobile phone and to locate a taxi using the mobile phone cell system, which as you move around. And we had developed a whole software, we had invested money and, and special microprocessors in about 400 taxis in Dublin. Do you know what I mean? That that could manage all this. And we were about to launch, uh, in Dublin, uh, on Winnie Technology, and the taxis had been in to get the chip put into their special chip put into their, into their meters. And the next thing Halo came along with almost endless resources. And then MyTaxi came along and now FreeNow came along. So, uh, we have we pulled out of Ireland and basically the scale of funding, which the Uber and so forth, we couldn’t match it.
So, now, I mean our chief executive, I no longer the chairman of the company, but the chief executive he is focused on developing in mid-cities, like in America, like Ohio or Columbus, a system that will appeal to the traditional taxi company who feels threatened by the Ubers, and the Lifts, and the MyTaxes of this world.
But, I mean, to me, it was a very personal example of an Uber, which has never made money, which has billions into it and trying to compete with that. Do you know what I mean? Even though the idea was similar. Yeah. And in fact, the software was probably superior in our company because the big companies like Uber, I mean, there is so much money that just rattled along and so forth.
Listen to the podcast about the creation of the ‘Mobility Mojo’ app from minutes 30 to 33.
(Geraldine) Talk to us about the speed of change in some of the examples that you have seen yourself, how it has wiped out some companies as we have referred to, or it has enhanced going to the market for others. Um, you spoke about a company that you mentor with, the Korean company?
(Padraic) Yeah. Yes. Yes. Very interesting. I think the example of the immersions of, um, and a brilliant idea, one of the first in the world to deal with the whole issue of, uh, access for people with disabilities, mobility access into public places, including hotels, and, uh, a friend of mine, Noel Ryan, who is in a wheelchair herself, I mean, saw this, that person with disabilities, are growing part of the international tourism market.
So, it is a growing tourism market. So, her idea was, and she had empathy, obviously herself as a disabled person with this, was to develop an app that would say disabled people, if they were visiting Dublin, they could check the app to see different hotels or public places or public transport was accessible to transfer.
Uh, and then as you know, in many cases she was working on developing the technology and then there is always the question, you know, how do you get remunerated. Initially, she thought that she would have a subscriber base of disabled people across the world. And then she succeeded in becoming part of the Ireland New Frontiers program and then into the national, um, Digital Research Centre.
And, um, she got, she worked with her business partner, Steven who is also disabled, and they pivoted the whole thing up. And it is called, um, uh, Mobility Mojo. And what they are offering now is not directly to the people with disabilities, but with the hotel groups, um, to give them a much more sophisticated rating about disability.
So, under, say access, the bedroom, the bathroom, all the different elements of the hotel, they have multiple scores and they independently rate the access. And they score the access of the hotel group. And that now increasingly, uh, on the section on, um, access is a feature.
And so their client now is not the individual disabled person. It is the hotel groups who have a strong interest because there is a growing sense of awareness of this, the need from point of view of equality, of access for disabled people and not a general thing to say, oh yeah, this hotel is, we have no problem with that with disabled access. So, it is it really interesting thing and that is a global business.
Listen to the podcast about the disadvantages and advantages of AI and trust in algorithms from minutes 33 to 38.
(Mahima) So, now we do want to touch on the disadvantages or the fear around AI. So, we would love to get your viewpoints on that.
(Padraic) AI at its most exotic esoteric level of simulating, namely simulating the human brain, create a sort of a certain dread and in humans and there is a certain primaeval dread that they are going to replace us.
Yeah. The human brain has 86 billion neurons, so, it is not going to happen anytime soon. And there are so many standards, not about simulating the entire brain it is about, it is about simulating certain activities that can be productive and so, forth.
So, if, I mean, I am a huge believer in the benefits of technology to human welfare. So, and, and if you think of all the drudgery over the years of people in the 19th century, judging, adding columns of things, which are all known by drawn by spreadsheets, you know, and reconciling different batches of figures and so, forth. So, I mean, we are so, used to it, to it happening. But in their whole areas of human life, where there are, there are obviously in health. Health is a huge area, I believe where the analytics and diagnostics, um, and the combination of algorithms and diagnostics, uh, will be a huge benefit to people in people in their health.
There are, there is a fear, I mean it is being predictive for example, that, uh, you know, in the next 10 years maybe 50% of clerical occupations would disappear. And that is, and that is, I mean, that is a fear, but, and in a way, and there is the challenge to companies is how they manage it. Because there are two things in companies.
One, very often the processes that people are involved in are boring, and they are, they are not making the best use of their talent and very often they are not giving the best service to the customer. So, I mean, some of the experiences with say automating customer service, instead of somebody ringing up and a person saying, oh, I have to call somebody about that, and the person is away, or they cannot get them, so there are automated responses.
And so, I mean, the predictions are, as you know that in many areas, even in including a lot of the legal business, there is a lot of repetition, a lot of counting, insurance claims and so forth, that in general, what is called we call clerical today is I think going to be some substance substantial change. And the challenge for society is to manage that. So, that you do you address the fears because if you look at every wave of technology, going back to the Luddites, but ultimately if it is managed properly, it makes people’s lives better and more productive. And then the event, I mean, even if you leave aside the AI, increasingly people are moving toward, in this part of the world to a four-day week, uh, on the basis that if it is organised properly, that it can be more productive.
So, there are huge changes. Now, there are equally huge risks and dangers in it. And you know, one of them is if you take, when you come to decision-making, that affects the citizen, whether it is a decision on what, on your insurance claim or whether you are going to get a mortgage or a loan from the bank. And if it is taken over by algorithms that have their own biases into them, for example, you could have algorithms that had hidden biases against women, for example, which would be unknown. And you probably never get to the bottom of that unless you can.
(Mahima) Because algorithms are written by people there, right?
(Padraic) They are written by people and a large degree by men.
(Mahima) So there you go!
(Padraic) But biases are built into human things. So, I believe that part of the whole AI thing or in activities where it affects the humans and so forth will be much greater transparency about uh, algorithm. Um, and then, I mean, I mean, if, if you look at the danger of too much trust in AI and, and artificial intelligence is, is the tragic example of the Boeing Max 737 aeroplanes. Where, where they built in a sort of sophisticated, uh, so, eh, system artificial intelligence, which is classic artificially, where, where the system is making decisions, not the pilots and the pilots do not even know. So, there are real issues.
(Mahima) I do want to ask one question, which we ask all our guests. If you could have, you could invite three people, alive, over to your house for dinner. So, this is one dinner with three guests. Who would they be? And why?
(Padraic) Laura Kuenssberg BBC. She is a brilliant, brilliant political commentator, who is just a genius. Jon Snow of News Night, who is an amazing empathetic newscaster. And Mrs Merkel who came from East Germany and lived under east Germany to become probably the most formidable political leader in Europe for the last 20 years, whatever time she has been there.
(Geraldine) We will miss her when she retires.
(Padraic) Yeah. I mean, it was very interesting last week when the British media were briefing against her, that Boris Johnson had a phone call with her and she was very arrogant or whatever, but apparently, she had a 40-minute interview with him and she explained to him in detail, the implications of his proposal for the Good Friday Agreement for peace in Northern Ireland, for the effect on the border. She took him through in micro detail, the British Prime Minister.
(Geraldine) A fascinating account by our very special guest Padraic White on analytics in use and best practices over a five decades span, believe it or not.
Padraic shared his experience with the use of data analytics and the IDA in the 1970s for scanning emerging trends globally to his views on AI and how it embraces strategy.
“It is the new battleground of technology for the future”, he says.
To how Ireland can be positioned as a leader in AI and the new technologies. A far cry from the bygone protectionist era of the 1930s to the early fifties and more in line with Kenneth Whitaker strategy of the 1950s, a vision towards bringing foreign direct investment to our shores.
Such an example was Intel, one of Padraic’s victories, as former MD of IDA. A proof that effective data use can benefit and revolutionize an economy. And of course, his taught on AI pitfalls, such as placing too much trust in AI, a tragic example, being the Boeing Max 737 planes, leaving the systems to make decisions and not the pilots involved.
Padraic White, it has been an honour! Thank you, on behalf of all involved in the production and delivery of the Where the Needle Lands.
Till the next time!
